Listen to Cat Uncaged
Monday, March 8, 2010
Monday, March 08, 2010 | 
Posted by
Catrina
This is a series of correspondences with No Greater Joys Ministries:
RE: Response
Monday, March 8, 2010 10:10 AM
From:
"Catrina McKechnie"
Add sender to Contacts
To:
ngj@nogreaterjoy.org
Ok, think of this, There are so many parents out there that are reading what your site says and thinking "Oh, they say it's ok to hit my child"
So they do. I am not in agreement of spanking, let alone spanking with a rod or any object, but, if you are in agreement with it, I really REALLY think you need to clarify this to people.
People are getting out of hand. It is one thing to discipline, it is another COMPLETELY to abuse kids. When parents read your website, they are seeing that your teachings are giving them the green light, so to speak, to take this and run with it.
No you're NOT in control of those whom you preach too and any normal sane parent, understands there ARE limits. But, all it takes is one moment of anger and there is a dead child.
You say out of love, why do you think that spanking is a way of showing love? I'm not dissing you or your site, I am asking an honest question. I HATE having to discipline my child, but I do it. I could NEVER lift a hand to hurt her in the way's that your website describes!
To be honest, your website offers good advice on some things, but some other things, like having a "Designer Rod" come on! I am not going to yell, or get all angry for the parent who occasionally spanks, and THANK GOD I read on your page NOT to spank before the age of one... but honestly, how can you look into the eyes of your child that loves you and needs your support, teachings and respect, and slap them?
Sir, you understand that I am upset, and I respect that you are remaining polite through our conversations.
I am a Christian, but I do not spank my child. We use non physical forms of "Training" as you would call it. Thus far, even her being an only child, she is the most well behaved child I know. We do not tolerate tantrums, or screaming etc, but there are SOME things that kids need to do to grow and develop!
I read one article on your site that states, that if a child acts 'silly" or does not "conform" they are to get spanked! Just to let you all know, in case you didn't, Kids ARE silly, and magnificent and wonderful! As parents we ARE NOT always right, and we can learn from our children. Yes, I said it, we can learn from our children. Parents who do not, are not good parents! As a test to you, just hear me out, the next time you desire to "spank" your child, look them in the eye, ask them what's wrong, talk to them, You really DO get farther then performing physical violence!
There are so many other things on your website that really upset me and MANY other parents, but you do not listen... We're asking you to realize that what you are teaching some parents is that for ANY wrong a child does (we all need to make mistakes to learn) that they will get spanked.
I was spanked as a child. The only thing I remember learning from it, My parents said they loved me, but they didn't show it when they spanked me......
Catrina
--- On Mon, 3/8/10, NGJ Secretary wrote:
From: NGJ Secretary
Subject: RE: Response
To: "'Catrina McKechnie'"
Date: Monday, March 8, 2010, 9:56 AM
Hello Catrina,
I can agree with much of what you have written and NGJ teaches all the techniques referred to in American Humane except the use of timeouts.
You state, "Physical discipline, such as spanking or paddling, is not considered abuse as long as it is reasonable and causes no bodily injury to the child" (again I am in agreement), and "The use of an OBJECT to hit a child, I.e. your ROD, Is abuse!" How then does one spank or paddle if not with and object.
Also discipline done in frustration is not a part of NGJ's philosophy and is frequently warned against. This kind of "discipline" may very well cause the problems that you mentioned but discipline properly administered by a loving parent or caregiver produces much different results as proven by the Pearls own grown children and growing number of healthy and happy grandchildren as well as the hundreds of thousands of other children that have experienced this successful disciplining philosophy. The Department of Children's Services after examining NGJ's philosophy and methods came to the same conclusion in that they are in no way abusive.
Sincerely,
Chuck Joyner
From: Catrina McKechnie [mailto:clawzymom@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 1:01 PM
To: ngj@nogreaterjoy.org
Subject: RE: Response
Physical abuse is nonaccidental physical injury (ranging from minor bruises to severe fractures or death) as a result of punching, beating, kicking, biting, shaking, throwing, stabbing, choking, hitting (with a hand, stick, strap, or other object), burning, or otherwise harming a child, that is inflicted by a parent, caregiver, or other person who has responsibility for the child.2 Such injury is considered abuse regardless of whether the caregiver intended to hurt the child. Physical discipline, such as spanking or paddling, is not considered abuse as long as it is reasonable and causes no bodily injury to the child.
http://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/factsheets/whatiscan.cfm
The use of an OBJECT to hit a child, I.e. your ROD, Is abuse!
Disciplining children by spanking does not facilitate learning. Instead, it may halt the unwanted behavior only while the child is in the adult’s presence, or it may scare a child into submission. While it may teach a child what not to do, it fails to teach a child what is expected of him or her and what is an alternate behavior. Additionally, physical discipline is most often used when the parent is frustrated or without other resource. Spanking in these circumstances may lead to an unintentional injury or more serious abuse. The following illustrate more of what physical discipline does:
* Increases anxiety and fear
* Hinders the development of empathy and compassion for others
* Makes children angry in response
* Heightens aggression toward others
* Decreases compliance and increases resistance
* Harms relationship with parent or caregiver
* Potentially causes unintended and severe physical injury
* Decreases self-esteem
* Increases the probability for an array of undesirable social and psychological behaviors
* Teaches that violence is an acceptable way to handle conflict
How can I discipline positively?
American Humane encourages parents and other caregivers to use techniques that constitute a positive and appropriate discipline of children, such as:
* Discipline with love
* Listen and communicate
* Focus on the behavior, not the child
* Respond immediately
* Relate the discipline to the offending behavior in duration and severity
* Be realistic
* Remain calm
* Be fair
* Do not harm or injure
* Set boundaries
* Make it a learning opportunity
* Be consistent
* Be creative
* Develop rules and expectations in advance
* Use timeouts
* Reward or praise desirable behaviors
* Model desired behavior
* Encourage the child’s cooperation and understanding
* Develop behavioral contracts and incentive charts
http://www.americanhumane.org/about-us/newsroom/fact-sheets/child-discipline.html
--- On Fri, 3/5/10, NGJ Secretary wrote:
From: NGJ Secretary
Subject: RE: Response
To: "'Catrina McKechnie'"
Date: Friday, March 5, 2010, 11:50 AM
Catrinea,
Apparently it is you who does not understand what the DA in this case and the Department of Children's Services does after a thorough examination of the philosophy and methods espoused by No Greater Joy Ministries, Inc. IT IS NOT ABUSE! The countless number of adults that were trained with this philosophy that are healthy, happy and contributing members of society know this as well.
Due to time restraints I rarely continue correspondence beyond the second email so please don't take lack of further response on my part personally.
Sincerely,
Chuck Joyner
From: Catrina McKechnie [mailto:clawzymom@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 9:28 AM
To: ngj@nogreaterjoy.org
Subject: Re: Response
You do not understand... I'm not talking about ONE particular case, I am talking about how YOU PEOPLE TELL PARENTS IT'S OK AND GOLDY TO HIT AND ABUSE CHILDREN!
--- On Fri, 3/5/10, NGJ Secretary wrote:
From: NGJ Secretary
Subject: Response
To: clawzymom@yahoo.com
Date: Friday, March 5, 2010, 11:24 AM
Dear Catrina,
Below is the link to both the District Attorney's comments and the official statement from No Greater Joy Ministries, Inc regarding the Schatz case.
http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/answers/response-to-schatz-case
It is obvious to anyone who cares to examine the facts that it is the rejection of the parenting philosophy espoused by the Pearls and No Greater Joy Ministries, Inc that contributed to this tragedy.
Subsequent statements by the District Attorney and media reports continue to point out the fact that what the Schatz's did was in complete contradiction to what the Pearls and NGJ teach. Those that ignore this reality do so only to perpetuate the lies to sensationalize this tragedy.
Let me know if I can be of further assistance.
Sincerely,
Chuck Joyner
Assistant General Manager
No Greater Joy Ministries
From: clawzymom@yahoo.com [mailto:clawzymom@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 2:59 PM
To: ngj@nogreaterjoy.org
Subject: [NGJ] Note to NGJ/Pearls
FIRST_NAME Catrina
LAST_NAME M
NOTE I want to know HOW you can justify hitting, or otherwise abusing ANY child? God does not want this! How can you look into the eyes of your children and LIE to them and tell them you love them and then proceed to beat the shit out of them? I cannot believe that you preach the word of God and in the same sentence tell people, INNOCENT, people that it's God's command to beat their children! You WILL suffer in Hell for what you are doing!
EMAIL clawzymom@yahoo.com
RE: Response
Monday, March 8, 2010 10:10 AM
From:
"Catrina McKechnie"
Add sender to Contacts
To:
ngj@nogreaterjoy.org
Ok, think of this, There are so many parents out there that are reading what your site says and thinking "Oh, they say it's ok to hit my child"
So they do. I am not in agreement of spanking, let alone spanking with a rod or any object, but, if you are in agreement with it, I really REALLY think you need to clarify this to people.
People are getting out of hand. It is one thing to discipline, it is another COMPLETELY to abuse kids. When parents read your website, they are seeing that your teachings are giving them the green light, so to speak, to take this and run with it.
No you're NOT in control of those whom you preach too and any normal sane parent, understands there ARE limits. But, all it takes is one moment of anger and there is a dead child.
You say out of love, why do you think that spanking is a way of showing love? I'm not dissing you or your site, I am asking an honest question. I HATE having to discipline my child, but I do it. I could NEVER lift a hand to hurt her in the way's that your website describes!
To be honest, your website offers good advice on some things, but some other things, like having a "Designer Rod" come on! I am not going to yell, or get all angry for the parent who occasionally spanks, and THANK GOD I read on your page NOT to spank before the age of one... but honestly, how can you look into the eyes of your child that loves you and needs your support, teachings and respect, and slap them?
Sir, you understand that I am upset, and I respect that you are remaining polite through our conversations.
I am a Christian, but I do not spank my child. We use non physical forms of "Training" as you would call it. Thus far, even her being an only child, she is the most well behaved child I know. We do not tolerate tantrums, or screaming etc, but there are SOME things that kids need to do to grow and develop!
I read one article on your site that states, that if a child acts 'silly" or does not "conform" they are to get spanked! Just to let you all know, in case you didn't, Kids ARE silly, and magnificent and wonderful! As parents we ARE NOT always right, and we can learn from our children. Yes, I said it, we can learn from our children. Parents who do not, are not good parents! As a test to you, just hear me out, the next time you desire to "spank" your child, look them in the eye, ask them what's wrong, talk to them, You really DO get farther then performing physical violence!
There are so many other things on your website that really upset me and MANY other parents, but you do not listen... We're asking you to realize that what you are teaching some parents is that for ANY wrong a child does (we all need to make mistakes to learn) that they will get spanked.
I was spanked as a child. The only thing I remember learning from it, My parents said they loved me, but they didn't show it when they spanked me......
Catrina
--- On Mon, 3/8/10, NGJ Secretary
From: NGJ Secretary
Subject: RE: Response
To: "'Catrina McKechnie'"
Date: Monday, March 8, 2010, 9:56 AM
Hello Catrina,
I can agree with much of what you have written and NGJ teaches all the techniques referred to in American Humane except the use of timeouts.
You state, "Physical discipline, such as spanking or paddling, is not considered abuse as long as it is reasonable and causes no bodily injury to the child" (again I am in agreement), and "The use of an OBJECT to hit a child, I.e. your ROD, Is abuse!" How then does one spank or paddle if not with and object.
Also discipline done in frustration is not a part of NGJ's philosophy and is frequently warned against. This kind of "discipline" may very well cause the problems that you mentioned but discipline properly administered by a loving parent or caregiver produces much different results as proven by the Pearls own grown children and growing number of healthy and happy grandchildren as well as the hundreds of thousands of other children that have experienced this successful disciplining philosophy. The Department of Children's Services after examining NGJ's philosophy and methods came to the same conclusion in that they are in no way abusive.
Sincerely,
Chuck Joyner
From: Catrina McKechnie [mailto:clawzymom@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 1:01 PM
To: ngj@nogreaterjoy.org
Subject: RE: Response
Physical abuse is nonaccidental physical injury (ranging from minor bruises to severe fractures or death) as a result of punching, beating, kicking, biting, shaking, throwing, stabbing, choking, hitting (with a hand, stick, strap, or other object), burning, or otherwise harming a child, that is inflicted by a parent, caregiver, or other person who has responsibility for the child.2 Such injury is considered abuse regardless of whether the caregiver intended to hurt the child. Physical discipline, such as spanking or paddling, is not considered abuse as long as it is reasonable and causes no bodily injury to the child.
http://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/factsheets/whatiscan.cfm
The use of an OBJECT to hit a child, I.e. your ROD, Is abuse!
Disciplining children by spanking does not facilitate learning. Instead, it may halt the unwanted behavior only while the child is in the adult’s presence, or it may scare a child into submission. While it may teach a child what not to do, it fails to teach a child what is expected of him or her and what is an alternate behavior. Additionally, physical discipline is most often used when the parent is frustrated or without other resource. Spanking in these circumstances may lead to an unintentional injury or more serious abuse. The following illustrate more of what physical discipline does:
* Increases anxiety and fear
* Hinders the development of empathy and compassion for others
* Makes children angry in response
* Heightens aggression toward others
* Decreases compliance and increases resistance
* Harms relationship with parent or caregiver
* Potentially causes unintended and severe physical injury
* Decreases self-esteem
* Increases the probability for an array of undesirable social and psychological behaviors
* Teaches that violence is an acceptable way to handle conflict
How can I discipline positively?
American Humane encourages parents and other caregivers to use techniques that constitute a positive and appropriate discipline of children, such as:
* Discipline with love
* Listen and communicate
* Focus on the behavior, not the child
* Respond immediately
* Relate the discipline to the offending behavior in duration and severity
* Be realistic
* Remain calm
* Be fair
* Do not harm or injure
* Set boundaries
* Make it a learning opportunity
* Be consistent
* Be creative
* Develop rules and expectations in advance
* Use timeouts
* Reward or praise desirable behaviors
* Model desired behavior
* Encourage the child’s cooperation and understanding
* Develop behavioral contracts and incentive charts
http://www.americanhumane.org/about-us/newsroom/fact-sheets/child-discipline.html
--- On Fri, 3/5/10, NGJ Secretary
From: NGJ Secretary
Subject: RE: Response
To: "'Catrina McKechnie'"
Date: Friday, March 5, 2010, 11:50 AM
Catrinea,
Apparently it is you who does not understand what the DA in this case and the Department of Children's Services does after a thorough examination of the philosophy and methods espoused by No Greater Joy Ministries, Inc. IT IS NOT ABUSE! The countless number of adults that were trained with this philosophy that are healthy, happy and contributing members of society know this as well.
Due to time restraints I rarely continue correspondence beyond the second email so please don't take lack of further response on my part personally.
Sincerely,
Chuck Joyner
From: Catrina McKechnie [mailto:clawzymom@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 9:28 AM
To: ngj@nogreaterjoy.org
Subject: Re: Response
You do not understand... I'm not talking about ONE particular case, I am talking about how YOU PEOPLE TELL PARENTS IT'S OK AND GOLDY TO HIT AND ABUSE CHILDREN!
--- On Fri, 3/5/10, NGJ Secretary
From: NGJ Secretary
Subject: Response
To: clawzymom@yahoo.com
Date: Friday, March 5, 2010, 11:24 AM
Dear Catrina,
Below is the link to both the District Attorney's comments and the official statement from No Greater Joy Ministries, Inc regarding the Schatz case.
http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/answers/response-to-schatz-case
It is obvious to anyone who cares to examine the facts that it is the rejection of the parenting philosophy espoused by the Pearls and No Greater Joy Ministries, Inc that contributed to this tragedy.
Subsequent statements by the District Attorney and media reports continue to point out the fact that what the Schatz's did was in complete contradiction to what the Pearls and NGJ teach. Those that ignore this reality do so only to perpetuate the lies to sensationalize this tragedy.
Let me know if I can be of further assistance.
Sincerely,
Chuck Joyner
Assistant General Manager
No Greater Joy Ministries
From: clawzymom@yahoo.com [mailto:clawzymom@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 2:59 PM
To: ngj@nogreaterjoy.org
Subject: [NGJ] Note to NGJ/Pearls
FIRST_NAME Catrina
LAST_NAME M
NOTE I want to know HOW you can justify hitting, or otherwise abusing ANY child? God does not want this! How can you look into the eyes of your children and LIE to them and tell them you love them and then proceed to beat the shit out of them? I cannot believe that you preach the word of God and in the same sentence tell people, INNOCENT, people that it's God's command to beat their children! You WILL suffer in Hell for what you are doing!
EMAIL clawzymom@yahoo.com
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